Satanic cult leader

[MacPhantom]

My take on the "Eternity of punishment" you mention is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. I think we send ourselves there.

Even the hundreds of thousands of people who lived and died without ever even hearing about Jesus? If God were truly omnipotent, how would he not be responsible? And if you say "because humans have free will", I'm just gonna say "then God, by definition, isn't omnipotent, because he doesn't have power over our will"...

I agree, Mike, that faith is belief without evidence. For some people, that is freeing. For others, it is impossible.

Check this link here!
http://www.demonbuster.com/halloween.html

It must be sad to have so little fun in life.

These things make us better than our ancestors...

I really have to disagree with you there, all religion aside.

I mean our ancestors from two thousand years ago. I'm not talking about The Greatest Generation.... even though my grandad was pretty racist.

I'm not convinced that any omnipotent or omniscient being who clamors for worship and sacrifice is 'God'.

I just keep picturing you saying that while wearing Spock ears and making the split fingered hand signal.

[iHaunt]

Here's another link!
www.exposingsatanism.org/halloween.htm

[MacPhantom]

Here's another link!
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/halloween.htm

If you are a professing Christian, you have no reason to be part of this holy day of Satan.

Whew! Good thing I ain't one! Bring on Halloweenmonthday!!!!!!

[Rising Dead Man]

why are you posting these as a die-hard halloween fan?

[Andybev01]

I'm not convinced that any omnipotent or omniscient being who clamors for worship and sacrifice is 'God'.

I just keep picturing you saying that while wearing Spock ears and making the split fingered hand signal.[/quote]

"Live long, and go <deleted> yourself" -Darth Cheney

[Murfreesboro]

RE those religious sites that condemn Halloween--I have never gone along with that fundamentalist aspect of Christianity, so I don't feel those sites are addressed to me. I have friends who refuse to celebrate it. Some of them may think I am flirting with the devil by doing so. I don't feel that way. To me, Halloween is the great holiday of imagination. I also think human nature needs that release once a year. I guess I think those folks who disapprove should lighten up. What is it that Shakespeare's Sir Toby Belch says to the protestant Malvolio in Twelfth Night? "Dost think, because thou art virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?" A pretty good response, that one.

Mac, that's a serious question you raise, about what happens to people who never heard about Jesus, or, for that matter, to decent people of other religious beliefs. I guess that's one of those things I am happy to leave to God. I don't have to decide who gets saved and who doesn't. I'm glad I don't. (The Bible says you must accept Jesus as your personal savior, but it also cautions that Jesus will not recognize everyone who calls out, "Lord, Lord," to him. I think the point is always that God looks at the intention of your heart, which no man can really know.) Dante gave an oblique hint about what he thought when he placed a Roman pagan, famed for his sense of justice, in Paradise. That's not Biblical, of course, but Dante was making the point that we cannot place limits on what God can do. If God wants to save someone outside of the Christian tradition, He can do that.

I have always been interested in what various religions teach, have in fact been reading the Koran this year because I was tired of having other people tell me what it said. I do think it is fascinating to discover how various groups of people have tried to come to grips with the big questions we all face. However, I can honestly say that my exploration of other religious traditions has brought me closer to Christianity, rather than taking me away from it. I think that Christianity is essentially a religion of love, and I don't think it is accidental that the Western tradition of aspiration toward political freedom grew out of a Christian context. I also agree with Mike that Christianity has as its core an unusual respect for women. This is particularly true if you examine the life of Jesus.

Mac, I was thinking again about your conviction that human beings have evolved (morally, ethically) over time, so that an ancient text like the Bible can have little to say to us today, other than as a cultural artifact. Do you feel that way about all ancient literature? What about Aristotle, or Plato? The Apology of Socrates? What about Hammurabi's Code, said to be the oldest legal code, and still considered foundational to legal codes throughout the world? I think your belief that modern men are superior to those of the past is very debatable.

[Pumpkin_Man]

Okay, I also checked out both of those links, and the word that imediately comes to mind is MILARKY!! I will agree that Halloween was started as a pegan custom, as were a lot of our holiday traditions, but it is a very holy and sacred observance of the nighe before All Saints Day. It is a VERY CHRISTIAN observance for Catholics, and All Saints Day is actualy a Holy Dao of Obligation.

As for Trick or Treat, costumes, jack o'lanterns and the like, those are FUN. They have NOTHING TO DO with satan or hell, and no one is going to be damned to hell for all eternity for handing out or receiving a candy bar as a "trick or treat" on Halloween.

I think the good reverends need to reconsider what they are preaching. The only way anyone can commit a sin is to KNOWINGLY do so. If you don't know it's a sin, you are not guilty of a sin. And Trick or Treating, putting on a costume and going to a 'haunted house," for entertainment is NOT A SIN.

Sheesh!!!!

Mike

[MacPhantom]

Mac, I was thinking again about your conviction that human beings have evolved (morally, ethically) over time, so that an ancient text like the Bible can have little to say to us today, other than as a cultural artifact. Do you feel that way about all ancient literature? What about Aristotle, or Plato? The Apology of Socrates? What about Hammurabi's Code, said to be the oldest legal code, and still considered foundational to legal codes throughout the world? I think your belief that modern men are superior to those of the past is very debatable.

Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates were philosophers, and philosophy is different from organized religion. Now I won't argue that there aren't ideas or fables in the Bible from which modern people can draw some lesson or value, but the Bible is far more than that. It is also a collection of rules and laws by which people are expected to live, and I would argue that if a God existed, and if he set forth a book of rules and laws for people to live by, including modern people, than those laws should be timeless. They should not include many of the bizarre orders found in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. The Bible, if it were a timeless, moral book of truth, should not sanction slavery anywhere within. It should not condone rape. It should condemn genocide.

When I read Plato's cave theory, I said, "What a load of bollocks". You can do that with philosophers, because nobody claims that the opinions of any one philosopher are the absolute truth (except for that specific philosopher, of course ). When I read the Bible, I said the same thing. The difference is, millions of people take it to be truth, and base their lives on it. Why? Do they accept ever single part as true? Do they pick and choose? If they concede that the Bible is wrong about the acceptability of slavery, what else did it get wrong?

The Bible, like most works of fiction, is interesting as an anthropological study of the people who wrote it. But it is not a suitable basis for a framework of modern society.

[Rising Dead Man]

I'm not actually an atheist but I have been leaning more and more to Macs side, but when I read this end times stuff it still freaks me out. Not strong enough to be an atheist.

[Pumpkin_Man]

So what you are more or less an agnostic rather then an atheist. I have two brothers who are agnistics, and as much as I hate to admit it, Agnosticism is more intelectualy sound, or rather better based on the "facts" as we understand them with our finite human brains, then any religion or atheism.

All I can say is that I know in my heart that The Bible is the living word of God, but I can understand why Mac and others don't believe that.

As for it being a book of rules, the way it's laied out is that is a record of all the stories, and rules as they were changed over time. For instance, Deuteronomy takes place after Exedus. The rules were changed then. When Christ came along, he changed the ruls again. It is moraly unacceptable for any Christian to rape, own slaves, enslave people, and commite genocide. The Catholic Church whole hearted condemned slavery during the 19th Century, and Catholics who lived in the Old South United States were prohibited from being slave owners.

One fo the most important rules set forth in the New Testiment is the rule that says "Judge not lest ye be judged."

Mike

[Murfreesboro]

I don't get hung up on the nit-picky rules in the OT, either, Mike. I believe Jesus summarized the "Law & the Prophets" when He said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, all thy soul, all thy mind and all thy strength. This is the first and greatest commandment, and the second is like unto it: thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." (I'm quoting from memory there, maybe got a word or two shifted, but I think that's close to correct.) I think that's a pretty safe summary of what all the rules of the OT boil down to.

When my (now adult) son was 13, he came home from church youth group with a piece of paper that asked, "What is the most frequent commandment in the Bible?" My mind was turning over all the "Thou shalt nots" I could think of. Then I turned over the paper to see the correct answer. It was "Fear not." I don't remember anymore how many times that phrase appears in the Bible, but evidently it is close to two hundred.

Obviously we are all going to have to agree to disagree on the subject of religion and even the existence of God. I am not a materialist. I believe there is "more in Heaven and earth than is dreamt of in [our] philosophy." Others are free to disagree.

BTW, if you all think the Bible is full of rules, you should try reading the Koran! It is mainly a legal text, very rule-bound. I was disappointed in it. I was hoping to read a treasure-trove of stories, like the ones in the OT, but that's not what I found there.

[Midnight Witch]

That is scary. Why did you go there?

[Murfreesboro]

That is scary. Why did you go there?

Not sure what you are responding to?

[Midnight Witch]

That is scary. Why did you go there?

Not sure what you are responding to?

Why did you watch those people in the building? Why did you park there and stay?

[Murfreesboro]

I thought they had stolen something from me. I needed to see what they were going to do with it. Why were you watching me?