Oral Roberts

[NeverMore]

.
Dead at 91.

Anyone ever see this guy preach? He was mesmerizing. Good luck up on that cloud Oral.

[Andybev01]

Hmm...are there sulfur clouds in heaven?

[Spookymufu]

Hmm...are there sulfur clouds in heaven?

hummmmmmmmm............not cool

[Rising Dead Man]

I never heard of him till you posted this. I looked him up on Wikipedia.

Raised the dead huh? OOOOOooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

[Andybev01]

Apologies to the true believers for my comment, but the man did once say that God would 'call him home' if his viewers didn't send his ministry 8 million dollars.

'Nuff said, I'll let sleeping dogs lay.

[Spookymufu]

I dont really go in for the evangelist stuff, but I also dont think it's cool to make fun of people for their religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs. If you dont believe in God thats okay, but you shouldnt mock or ridicule those that do either and really, it's in bad taste to make fun of ANYONE on the day they die....

Just my opinion

[Andybev01]

I totally respect that Spooky.

Besides I don't come in here to talk religion or politics, that's what Thanksgiving dinner is for.

[Rising Dead Man]

What about when Fred Phelps dies? Almost no one respects him. What about Osama Bin Laden?

I dont really go in for the evangelist stuff, but I also dont think it's cool to make fun of people for their religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs. If you dont believe in God thats okay, but you shouldnt mock or ridicule those that do either and really, it's in bad taste to make fun of ANYONE on the day they die....

Just my opinion

[Spookymufu]

I dont care for either of those guys, but dont you think they deserve common decency when they die, at least enough not to make fun of their dying?

Justice is one thing, complete disrespect of a human being is another.

Again, I dont agree with either of them, but I wont make fun of them the day they die.

EDIT: Okay, ya'll are adults, you dont need someone to tell you whats tasteful, right, or wrong.....as andy said

'Nuff said, I'll let sleeping dogs lay.

[MacPhantom]

What is it about sleeping dogs that makes me want to nudge them with my toe, or dangle bacon in front of them.....??

Let me not judge the lives of others, lest I myself be judged, but if you'll indulge me (or even if you won't) I'll offer up an obituary for a man who made his fortune selling prayer:

"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Luke 18:25

And Andy, for the last time, please, please stop drinking my Kool-Aid.

[Murfreesboro]

My mother and I used to watch Oral Roberts's TV program when I was growing up. I believe my mother even got his (free) booklet about the "miracle of seed faith." However, she did tell me that she was asked if she wished to make a donation when she called and asked for it (not that there's anything wrong with asking, of course, and they did send the booklet without that.) After she read it, she commented to me that the "seed" was supposed to be a monetary donation to the ministry. I believe she admired much of what Oral Roberts was doing, but was somewhat skeptical re his frequent emphasis on money.

Nowadays I sometimes watch the 700 Club. They are Evangelicals, and they do much very impressive work around the world, making real improvements in the lives of people. However, fairly often they will include stories about Americans who are in desperate financial circumstances. Supposedly these people give their last $$ to the 700 Club ministry, and immediately thereafter, they experience major financial turn-arounds. Like my mother, I have to be skeptical about these anecdotes.

I think those in the Evangelical tradition have a great deal to be proud of. They invented the concept of Sunday School, back when those were literally schools, offering the only academic instruction available to child factory workers. Evangelicals were a strong force in ending the slave trade, in establishing child labor laws, etc. They really do believe in walking the walk. More recently. they were hard at work in Africa long before celebrities like Angelina Jolie and Bono made such things fashionable. And ministry like this does take money, no doubt about that. I just feel uncomfortable when they imply that there is some direct correlation between giving financially to their ministry and being financially blessed yourself.

One of my own spiritual struggles, from my childhood onward, has been that I really long for bourgeois comfort, the sort of thing I see idealized in various women's magazines I read. However, when I read the Bible, what I see is that God's chosen people do not lead comfortable lives. People like Moses and Jesus led heroic lives, but never comfortable ones. I don't think it's a sin to be rich, but I don't think God cares very much about that, either way.

[MacPhantom]

The comparison of the relative comforts of biblical characters to people living in the United States in 2009 strikes me as an exercise in futility. Assuming the actual existence of the characters, they lived in a world where even the simplest of devices, say a ball point pen, would have seemed magical in its construction. Thus, my inability to see the use or practicality of all but the most allegorical of bible tales in our modern lives, and even many of the lessons of morality fail to stand up to a modern American code of ethics.

My general impression of religion is that it is a necessary psychological construct in the lives of many people, but that a believer gets back exactly as much as they put in to it, necessarily shaping what he or she believes to what he or she needs to believe.

[Andybev01]

...you can't buy salvation or enlightenment.

Here's your coffee cup back. I finished it.

[MacPhantom]

...you can't buy salvation or enlightenment.

Here's your coffee cup back. I finished it.

Ta, mate. Hope it didn't leave too bitter of an aftertaste.

[Andybev01]

...you can't buy salvation or enlightenment.

Here's your coffee cup back. I finished it.

Ta, mate. Hope it didn't leave too bitter of an aftertaste.

Was that bourbon I tasted?